Author Topic: Suggested Improvement Cherno the players would like??!!??  (Read 30310 times)

yegerss

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Re: Suggested Improvement Cherno the players would like??!!??
« Reply #15 on: February 16, 2015, 06:10:27 PM »
the ai are great !!  8)

ArmchairCoward

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Re: Suggested Improvement Cherno the players would like??!!??
« Reply #16 on: February 16, 2015, 09:18:18 PM »
Thought I'd throw my opinion into th mix.

I don't play on A2 much anymore and it's mainly due to Arma 3, but the AI spawning right behind you after you've cleared an open field was a pain.
I enjoyed them spawning in towns and when you stumble accross them when wondering about, just didn't like when they jumped you like magic daemon ninjas! haha. 
I always found that everyone on the server was more than willing to lend a hand getting back to my gear so never really an issue, just really frustrating.

Weapons prices was always a difficult one as there are so many weapons and so many traders and so many reasons for them sawning in (AI/loot/missions etc.).
Only ways I can see of balancing it out is to either give them crap/cheap weapons but put their skill on 11, OR to have their weapons dissappear on death and have the mission reward something other than weapons.

If we want to make it friendlier for bambis, could we look into having a neutral trader, only accessible to those between -200 and 5000 humanity?  That way you can have different price list or possibly some additional loot only accible to bambis (Thinking larger stock of building supplies and cheap NVGs etc.)

Done


Porkmasterjam

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Re: Suggested Improvement Cherno the players would like??!!??
« Reply #17 on: February 16, 2015, 09:47:30 PM »
Hello everyone !

My 2 cents.

Me being a new player. Found this PVE server quite hard to start. If it wasn't for the DMR group. I would have left along time ago. It feels like a PVP server. But instead of players KOSing. It's AI's. I couldn't go out of a safe zone, without being attacked. I've lost so much loot/vehicles just because i ran in to Ai's. Granted this is part of the game. I am always getting killed, by being shot through a building. Just last night. I was in the stairwell the NWAF ATC. Got shot and then killed. Wasn't near any windows. Then came back and my Vodnik was blown up. I don't mine the level of the AI's. But being shot through a building is my problem.

On the other hand. DMR. Please keep up the great work you guys/gals, are doing. This server is quite enjoyable at times. Bambiville is a great idea. Friendly admins are the reason I stayed. I've never played on a server, where the admins help as much as they do here.

So instead of making a suggestion, I would like to make a request. Have the Ai's stop being able to shot through walls !

Venny

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Re: Suggested Improvement Cherno the players would like??!!??
« Reply #18 on: February 16, 2015, 09:53:00 PM »
Thank you for your kind words pork, we understand the ai is hard for new players that is why we try to help, its difficult getting the balance correct to make it enjoyable for all players of all skill levels.

Venny

Sierra

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Re: Suggested Improvement Cherno the players would like??!!??
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2015, 10:45:28 AM »
Happy to se this thread came alive,

I hope we can get ,more new players in here since they are the ones that are gonna keep the boat floating, or the ship sailing or whateveryouwant.

I think its important to take the focus away from how we can make the server hard og challenging og the vets and to make it appealing and attractive to new players

Atm there is a lot of cries for help from new players joining and the  "was killed" messages are rolling like music lyrics.

We gotta know that most servers dont do roaming AI and when ppl hop over to us i can understand that they dont feel the love right away :-)

My fear is that our current hardness will loose us some good people and new players and the drama that comes with em is all i got left :-)

weirdizum

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Re: Suggested Improvement Cherno the players would like??!!??
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2015, 04:37:55 PM »
My thoughts, (sorry starting off with bit of a rant)

When I first started on this server, Just getting back to Stary from a random spawn on the coast was a mission in itself let alone trying to recover my body from just outside the safe zone without getting slotted again. We now have spawn picking and haloing, Pick of skins, and full load out from spawn,  use to be to just be a compass  and a few bandages and a map was the first item you brought. Point is how much easier do we really want it? PVE - if we remove the roaming AI  the environment consists of just s few zombies that you can hide from in a bush.

The reasons I started rewriting the mission system was because the missions were so dam easy and the only thing that used to get my adrenaline going was looking out for the patrol which was going to slot me in the back and cost me a 30 minute run back to try getting my gear back (assuming the roaming AI didn't get me again on the way back).

Still that's just me and I understand I'm a bit weird in this regard and I also understand that we need to be more accommodating to weak players that join the server. Remember we also get stronger players that join and love the challenge our server gives them.
For now I will only comment on the AI and not loot pricing tables as that is more the councils responsibility.

Rant finished thanks for listening.

AI Skill Settings Options:
   I’m breaking this down into 2 subject matters Roaming and Mission as I believe that they fill different requirements, missions are about money and roaming is about survival ( yes I know you can farm roaming AI and AI vehicles  but it’s not what the initial intention was.)

Roaming AI:
       I get that stopping the AI spawning next to players is an issue that needs to be addressed but in the current system the spawn points are to what amounts to set positions (we all know the spawn points for NWAF ) and if a player is next to one of them when its activated they are screwed.
Are we suggesting that we shouldn't have roaming AI at all and that you are always safe in the wilderness? Or that in reality the AI wouldn't send out roaming patrols at missions? What about the AI vehicles because they can interfere with missions too and waste the bambies just as well as the AI on foot?

I know the radios Don’t always let you know when AI are in the area and that fresh spawns only very rarely get them maybe we should look at fixing this in some way. Whatever we do we would need to write our own Roaming AI system which would take a while as the roaming system we have is not currently capable of much more than just black listing whole areas. 

As for skills Roaming AI are spawned by detecting players in areas, if we wrote out own system it would be possible to use the information from the scan to set the AI skill values.
E.G
   If trigger player has [DMR] in name set skills to max
   If trigger humanity  greater than 5000 set skills to max
   If trigger humanity  is between 2500 and  5000 set skills to med
   If trigger humanity  is less than 2500 set skills to min
   If trigger player pisses me off set skills to super super max

If we did decide to build a new system what should the roaming rules requirements be?

What is a safe distance from a player to spawn AI?

We could also get the patrols to fire a burst in the air or flare or smoke when they spawn so at least you know there in the area. Any Ideas ?

We could make the roaming AI not spawn near missions but what distance from the mission is safe for the player to not spawn roaming AI ?

How do we stop players spawning AI on the way to safe area around the mission?

Mission AI:
       The missions are generally colour coded to match AI skill settings and AI count (I consider the count to be a variant of skill )
I don’t think the AI skill values needs to be depended on the player for the missions as it’s a choice and not an imposed event if a player wishes to do a mission above his skill level why should we stop him.
I’m not sure what we would want to do with the AI skill for the missions apart from maybe making a really really easy one for bambies - 4 ai with pistols and blindfolds easy and adding non AI ones.

Let me Know your ideas and we will see where it goes from there.

Weird...
Buttons arn't Toys

Sierra

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Re: Suggested Improvement Cherno the players would like??!!??
« Reply #21 on: February 18, 2015, 10:20:23 AM »
Well on a longer run id love to se some more depth to the AI, more behavior and maybe som konvois or some new stuff that we havent seen before.

One thing i wonder tho wierd , is it possible to keep the AI's to city's? i mean roaming ones, and maybe dumb down the spawning ones a little bit , a lot of "i just got shot when i spawned" comments lately,
Ai seams to se and shoot thru walls to, have felt it myself and its just hopeless

Executer

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Re: Suggested Improvement Cherno the players would like??!!??
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2015, 10:49:36 AM »
In general.
I like the AI and the difficulty and think it would be a loss if we gave this up completly.

But what we do have is alot of unfair situations.
Like the mentioned AI that does sometimes see, shoot and kill you trough walls (i got killed at NWAF inside the barracks trough the wall, 2 shots out of "nowhere" and dead).
The AI spawned upon you is another of those unfair situations, maybe they even only happen if another player spawns the AI upon you, but this shouldn't happen.

A toned down zone (for example east coast, including a path klen trader) with less AI, less difficulty and no vehicle/choppers may be a solution for the new players, . So they can get a easier feeling for the server.
Maybe the mentioned bambi missions can only spawn in this area as third mission up and without RPG.

The warning of AI in vicinity would be nice, or a counter (range 400m or so) like some have with players/zeds in the debug.

Some sort of reward for fighting AI vehicles/choppers would be awesome and could even increase the tension/cheering server wide. Like a message "player xyz is fighting vehicle-X/chopper-Y) and another one if they got killed or destroyed it or have taken out all the crew.

I noticed at least one broken ACR 6.8mm SD gun, with that i couldnt even hit a ZED on 50m due spread and the sight was totaly broken, maybe looking trough the weapons beside the prices and getting rid of the buggy one is another task to do.

Then we cant sell backpacks from vehicles, would be cool if that would be included as a third option, as picking them up is already a tedious task. But would just be convenient, as they make quite some money and are worth the hassle.

The town missions are usually left, at least by me because the Zed in the town make it a pure hassle, with constantly beeing chased, bleeding and insane ammo consumption. CBC already is tricky without the Zeds, limit it to one Wave during missions or get completly rid of them during the mission may be nice. (overall there are 25 guys in town and they would clean the city if they overtake it, right? Those AI attacking Zed may be an alternative).

I wonder how often spawn points get freed. Is that done when the grave turns into a DZE grave? Does hiding the body help?

The runners from missions are a constant hassle. And good luck if they as cherry on the top have an RPG...

And as mentioned, i think the economy could be overworked. In no means i mean to make it easier to farm money, just get the scaling right, fix prices that doesnt belong in there, maybe make a Cheap gun category, scale more between basic sights and special sights and i have the feeling does ammo crates, ore veins and hemp fields give too much money (sorry guys).

The HK 417 SD, as (as far i know) only REAL SD rifle that hits accurate 500-600m is booring as its out of league, some variety in the same league would be nice :P

I have to say i love the server and thanks for all the hard work and time put into it.
I understand does interests do shift and time is a valuable ressource.

So i am offering myself as a helpful hand, if that is wanted :)

Dwarfer

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Re: Suggested Improvement Cherno the players would like??!!??
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2015, 11:16:45 AM »
BUGS READ IT DO IT = http://www.deadmenrising.net/index.php/topic,267.0.html

Dwarfer..
Quote
AI. Yeah they are tweaked for vets yes defo.. We could look to towns down but then does it make it to easy ??. Maybe able to tweak the AI to not spawn in
open but just in towns. Maybe..

However this is not going to stop the AI shooting though walls. That is just the way A2 works I am afraid. Sometimes they wall hack :-(. Nor is it going to stop players spawning at the NWAF and running into the AI that spawn up there.. Unless we regress back to default spawn on the coast then you will have 7k-9k runs again.

Just some comments back with what is technically possible

Unfortunately there is no way to control AI skill level on a specific part of the map as it stands. I like the idea just not feasible.

Quote
"warning of AI in vicinity"
We already have this with the radios for the roaming AI. Mission AI no but then you should be more careful walking into a coloured circle on the map :-). We could add radios to spawns but do we not think people already get it to easy ? with a gun, map, ammo, food ? are we not just making this COD ??.

Reward for Killing AI. You get to keep the loot you find of them ? Granted with the Choppa you don't unless you track it down and search for the bodies.  There is no way to get the data from the vehicle that is taking the damage as to WHO is issuing the damage that is just the A2 engine. Even in A3 that is the case (i believe A3). A2/A3 was not written to be a stats model like the COD games where it logs every projectile and what it has hit.

Backpack selling. This i am afraid is not possible from the vehicle else It would have already been done. is it not already easier enough to sell you wares taking an extra 2-3mins to sell the BP is it really that hard ?.

Broken ACR.. You sure your just not a crap shot ;-)... If it really is broken then just log it with the exact model and how to reproduce and we can look at it. BUGS WILL NOT LOG THEM SELVES

It is your choice todo or not todo missions. We are not going to remove some just because they are "hard".  We can maybe look at a timeout system (to be discussed). We will only remove missions if they are truly broken.

Spawn points get cleared when the server restarts. There is no way to clear them down manually/automatically we could run a script every 10mins however this would also clear any body that still had items to be collected after a death there is no AGE flag on them its all or nothing.. We can lower the restart to 4hrs as this is the advised time from the DEV's not 6hrs we run on.

Economy.. I am leaving this alone for now I will be posting something soonish.. However is there are complexly WACK items on sale then LOG A BUG. BUGS WILL NOT LOG THEM SELVES

We are still committed to this server however we are reaching the limit of the A2 engine.

If you think you can help please look though the CODE at https://github.com/vbawol/DayZ-Epoch and http://epochmod.com/forum/index.php?/forum/37-a2-epoch-resources/ and if you can understand it/think you can help write modules then go for it. You will just need to build yourself a test server, test your code then give to us for testing then we can put live all being well.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2015, 11:20:03 AM by Dwarfer »

Chris 74

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Re: Suggested Improvement Cherno the players would like??!!??
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2015, 12:05:35 PM »
Ok i will add my 20 cents worth to this , ( 20 instead of 2 as i like to ramble on ) .

Money / mission payout / loot : To me this is fine , its well balanced and the reward for each mission is high enough , if you completely loot a yellow u average 60k or so , more than enough for the new players to buy there cheap truck and gun/ammo , and u can always keep some of the guns if you like them . Plus there's loads of ore veigns / ammo crates etc to loot and make more , even if ur not hero the hero players will generaly give u the equivalant money for it .

Ai spawning / player spawning : Right this is the major one , lol . This to me is abit frustrating and always has been , the best example of this i can give is when Vectorkiller and myself where sniping a green mission from 700 or so at paboda dam and i casually said while turning to him " We should maybe keep an eye out for spawning in ai " With that 3 spawned right behind me but in front of him , less than 3 metres away like ghost ninjas ! The 2 concerns i have there is ; this was a green ( easy ) mission , usually done by the newer players and designed for them . If that had been a new guy on his own , chances are he'd have been killed , got really stressed and raged outta the server . The other was how they spawned in like that , they were obv for me not Vector and luckily he killed 2 and wounded the 3rd while that one was knocking me out cold ! That to me is a wrong system for ai . Dont get me wrong i like how tough they are and how good a shot cause its made me much better at the game , but something like what wierd said where they scan how high ur humanity is and skill mathces accordingly seems like a great idea to me . As we cant all do missions in groups all the time and watch each others backs .

As for the new players , i would say they get more than enough kit , the only suggestion would be to remove that shotgun from whichever class it is as shotguns are completely pointless as a new spawn in gun when on the cherno map with its big open fields and forests etc . And we (dmr ) Generally always help out new players with heli lifts etc so they get alot of help and if after we tell them about the ai they still head off to the airfield its theyre own fault imo .


As for the othe features , the trade from vehicles , mission types , loot / ammo crates / spawn system with halo etc are all great , now we have weather u can halo to within 500 metres usually of ur body so huge congrats to all the admins / server designers etc for all of that , aswell as super hero and the thermal guns .

Last point , i would love to see some kind of a convoy esort type mission for us to use our vehicles in . I dont know if this is possible but something like a mission start point say up north in a town , and a drive through varios checkpoints with increasing ai difficulty ( but no lock on rpgs ) . If anyone ever played operation flashpoint red river and did the convoy escort it would play similar to that . I can picture in my head a convoy of us in jackals /armed voddy / humvees etc with maybe a black hawk or attack heli giving air cover while getting pounded by 50 cals and lmgs , would be so cool if it could be done but would be the oppurunity for us to use the super hero vehicles for what theyre designed for , mass killing !
 
Anyway thats my thought , and see you all soon when my new pc arrives !!  ;D ;D ;D



Only the dead have seen the end of war  -   Plato

Sierra

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Re: Suggested Improvement Cherno the players would like??!!??
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2015, 12:39:44 PM »
Quote
Last point , i would love to see some kind of a convoy esort type mission for us to use our vehicles in . I dont know if this is possible but something like a mission start point say up north in a town , and a drive through varios checkpoints with increasing ai difficulty ( but no lock on rpgs ) . If anyone ever played operation flashpoint red river and did the convoy escort it would play similar to that . I can picture in my head a convoy of us in jackals /armed voddy / humvees etc with maybe a black hawk or attack heli giving air cover while getting pounded by 50 cals and lmgs , would be so cool if it could be done but would be the oppurunity for us to use the super hero vehicles for what theyre designed for , mass killing !


I like this, we need ut be able to use our vehicles for other things than transport, and keep the magical wierdo rpgs the fluck away from em.

ArmchairCoward

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Re: Suggested Improvement Cherno the players would like??!!??
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2015, 07:44:14 AM »
Thanks for the technical details Weird/Dwarfer.  It's good to know what we can/can't achieve. 

I knew A2 disliked walls and buildings when dealing with AI.  I lways thought it was to do with the way the walls spawned in after restart (buildable items and added buildings etc.).  Also, I thought the roaming AI were random spawns and we just had the minimum distance set to 'HUGZ' haha.

1. Firsty, skilllevels are not an issue for me, this is DayZ, they're out to survive, just like you.

2. Would it be possible to ammend the current script so the triggers are still stationary but instead of sawning at the same point, it is a random point within a set radius (Checking for player location first)?  First to admit I don't understand the complexity of it, but that's because i haven't seen the code/don't know which AI script is being used etc.  I will try setting up a server for testing as suggested and have a bit of fun (and a lot of frustration) pottering about and tweaking.

3. Is it possible to add a warning with a delay to the roaming AI?  lets say the locals report activity and then a few minutes later, boom (I belve the radio message is faulty for some/doesn't include a delay?) or a C130 flys past etc.  That would stop the ninjas surprising you, but it would take out the fear factor.  Then again I guess if you could do that it's not a mile away to having it spawn a random location or check player distance.. (just thinking out loud.. or on paper.. kinda)

4. If they can fire a few shots out at spawn, is that a servr event like a sound clip or would the actual AI point up and fire a burst?  If it's the latter, could we get them to lay prine for say 30 seconds upon spawning instead?  Then if you get shot it's not from someone who has just de-cloaked but who was laying down stalking you.  If they spawn in front of you/behind you and you see em, then more fool them in that 30 seconds :)

5. If we do need/want to build a new system, then largely I like what we have, except for them spawning so close.  No issues with them 'stumbling' upon your location or being called in, so if they spawned say 500m out and ran in, or got a drop off from heli/hummer/Nr 42 bus or even 'chuted in the middle distance etc, THEN they snook up on me, then it's my fault for not checking my 6 ^_^

AH.  I feel better haha.

6. I like the idea of a Bambi level zone somewhere with maybe some friendly AI or reduced skill AI, maybe a separate Bambi mission to hone their skills.  Would have to be not worth the time for reular players to do the misison, so say it doesn't take up the slot of a normal misison and has low level loot etc.  Not sure how that one will play out, just a spur of the moment thought in my head. 

7. Can someone comment on the idea of a Bambi trader with MAX humanity (positive/negative) which could be placed somewhere where we blacklist the Roaming AI and they can have some sort of learning curve to the server?

Again, it has to be said that this is only constructive criticism (I hope) and I for one appreciate all the effort everyone involved has put in to making the server what it is. 

Keep up the good work and have some beans on me! (Not literally, I'm not that kind of guy, but I will GIVE you some beans.  No, not like that Dwarfer!  You're such a child!)

Rain

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Re: Suggested Improvement Cherno the players would like??!!??
« Reply #27 on: February 26, 2015, 12:47:40 PM »
Many good suggestions and opinions on this thread ^^ I agree especially with Sierra’s and Exe’s points a lot, but will try not to repeat too much.

Additional suggestions in order of importance to me:

1.   AI spawning on players far out in the woods and wilderness should (if possible) be minimized to a point where it resembles the very few freak encounters we get in normal PvP servers.

2.   Change the standard player character selection so players can’t spawn with the businessman skin, terrorist skin or rocker skin. If we subtract the cases off new players not being aware of, or not caring about the rules. Most player on player kills/clashes and near misses seem to be related to players (even the more experienced ones) being surprised or “jumped” by unannounced players. This will of course always happen, especially at airfields or missions. In my opinion it wouldn’t hurt to make players a little easier to differentiate by usually looking different from AI.

3.   Clean up ^^ That littlebird at Klen trader has been there for almost two weeks now and I have a feeling that some of the bases are slightly abandoned. Server is also said to have rules about building distance to trader zones.

4.   I’d love to be able drive into or land in trader zones at normal speed. If I crash my heli that’s my problem, If I bump into someone or their property I should pay more attention to the rules and general spirit of the server and start showing more respect to the players around me. I want to be better able to dodge and fly away to cover if a AI heli or car rolls up, even from trader zones.

5.   Load screen or intro-text or similar with most common necessary info, ai, features and important rules. (Only PvE, Roaming ai on land and in the air, don’t leave your vic in trader  etc.)

As to AI sometimes shooting trough walls I don’t really see the problem as players are fully free to do the same back and even keep situatonall awereness trough free-look in 3rd person. If u find this happening a lot, try to move a little faster after they have acquired your pretty face ^^

Regardless: server is totally awesome as it is! Thank you all for contributing to a fun and challenging gaming experiene and your time reading this.

And sorry for my spelling.
« Last Edit: February 26, 2015, 02:00:59 PM by Rain »

Sierra

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Re: Suggested Improvement Cherno the players would like??!!??
« Reply #28 on: February 26, 2015, 02:41:18 PM »
Just let floppy know about the bird and the MTVR next to it, its daniel129 or somethings, he hasnt been on for 2 ish weeks

skinns i agree, should be simplified abit, starters sould be limited to survivors to begin with, then maybe the army ones at a certain amount of humanity,

speed limit in traders i agree with, think this has been declined before. it doesnt make sense and it the only real effect it has is to get players stuck when under fire.
A little friendly crashing in the trade zone never hurt anyone (that bad)

Imp rules on loading screen, ( good idea) since most ppl dont bother looking for em

 

FloppyWaffle

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Re: Suggested Improvement Cherno the players would like??!!??
« Reply #29 on: February 27, 2015, 01:22:13 AM »
i will move the LB and the mtvr .... and if by magic they will be gone by the time you log in :D